Mirrored From (NaomiChambers): http://www.youtube.com/user/NaomiChambers
Systems of human organization change drastically over time. One of the biggest proofs we have of this, is how Democracy has changed. Ancient Greek democracy, δημοκρατία, has drastically changed and its true form does not exist anywhere on earth today. Only a small fragment of the Brand of δημοκρατία the Ancients practiced is used today. This video proves that they way people organize themselves do change – Drastically – over time.
This video is in response to mujtahid2006, a video entitled
Can the future Khilafah (Caliphate) accomodate non-muslims? The original video is about 14 minutes in length, therefore my response will be broken up into a few different video responses.
Debating with Muslims is a very tricky, and intellectually challenging. Abdulla is one of the more charasmatic voices on youtube Islam, which is the only reason make videos discussing the topics he has raised. The secret to debating with muslims is to first understand how they value public orators.
In the Islamic world, a person is a good orator if they speak well, uplift their audience, make them feel good, and create what appears to be logical connections. Sometimes they will play on words or concepts, make logical connections between them without fully understanding the differences between two different concepts. We have seen Zakir Naik do this on many occasions. Abdulla debates in many respects, like Zakir Naik. The way to hand it means taking a step back, looking critically at the argument and dissect their arguments component parts. Sometimes a logcal fallacy will come at you so fast you will not have time to see it, which is why I like to take it easy when responding to Muslims, and carefully dissect each point they make, the connections between their points, and analyze any logical fallacies which they use.
Please go to the following links to verify the information I have presented in this video.
First – Abdullas Original Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbs3ZygNhfk
Ancient Greek Democracy Timeline
http://www.ancient-greece.us/democracy.html
Book Suggestion – Ancient Greece
http://www.questia.com/library/book/negotiating-democracy-transitions-from-authoritarian-rule-by-gretchen-casper-michelle-m-taylor.jsp
Women in Ancient Greece
http://www.ancient-greece.us/women.html
Slavery in Ancient Greece – Η δουλεία στην αρχαία Ελλάδα
http://www.crystalinks.com/greekslavery.html
Duration : 0:7:19
[youtube SCK0L7R8FzE]
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
islaameeee
… … 
… dude 2 yrs of tht thing gave me a headache.. full of lies and deceiving ..
islaameeee
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
I think you should …
I think you should learn spelling before history and human science.
There is a point, that is often dismissed, in almost every western humanist. That is almost all dictatorships of the “Muslim” world are sponsored and backed mainly by the so called democracies of the west. Hosny mubarak would not not stand 24 hours without the support of your govenmt.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
As usual, the …
As usual, the ill-informed sandy-butt has deliberately twisted historical fact to support his agenda of hate. Representative democracy was not handed down from ancient Greece. Our system developed independently.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
I would advocate …
I would advocate anything over an economic system that is doomed to collapse due to the impending inability to afford interest payments on money that doesn’t even exist. The economy has only grown because people are willing to enslave themselves to the people who claim to have authority.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
ahhh now we are …
ahhh now we are getting somewhere, so do you advocate barter system or gold standard? i think the fact that we’ve managed to avoid many major financial meltdowns in the past 60 some years while sustaining a viable growing economy is a testament to the effectiveness of our current economic policies.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Yes, currency is …
Yes, currency is good for that, but the problem with the system that is currently in place is that the government can create as much of it as they want, and it’s the citizens who suffer from the inflation. The federal reserve is in complete control of the money supply because they are the ones who make it. When we were on the gold standard, at least the money was backed up by something, but as it stands, money has no actual value. It’s just green paper.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
true, but it is the …
true, but it is the universal demnad for a dollar that makes it valuable, u could go to that same store and say well i need 8 eggs ill give u a painting, and the shopkeeper could go i got a million paintings i need frames so sorry no eggs for you, but ricky down the street who makes frames could get tons of eggs.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
You can still go to …
You can still go to one grocery store and see one price for things and go to another store and see a completely different price. Currency didn’t make the prices of things uniform or stable, and that was never the purpose of currency. Something worth one dollar to one person is worth a dollar fifty to another.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
the point is that …
the point is that barter system is an antequated method of doing business, it was done away with a long time ago because it is almost impossible to fairly agree on vaule of things unless there is some set comparison as in this is worth 1 dollar, i still barter to this day, but i use the dollar as a measurement of a good or service’s worth.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Excellent vid Naomi …
Excellent vid Naomi Chambers. Thanks for the effort that it took to present such a well reasoned, cogent argument.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Here is where we …
Here is where we hit a snag. I can claim to have an advanced degree in economics, but without a way to verify it, it’s a moot point. Your level of education has nothing to do with this debate. If you have solid points to make against what I’m saying, which you might from your entry level college course, then make them. But consider my point of view, don’t just dismiss it as conspiracy theories. I won’t listen to you if you won’t listen to me.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
no i took a college …
no i took a college entry level economics course, its pretty simple stuff
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
How do you know? …
How do you know? Did you read an old book or journal written by somebody before there was currency complaining that the exchange rate for apples was different where he came from compared to where he traveled to? Or did you just assume it because you like the status quo? You won’t get anywhere in this by assuming things about me. I could be rich for all you know.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
yes im pretty sure, …
yes im pretty sure, think about it and stop being a conspiracy theorist. it might be that you are just angry because you havent done enough to establish your own wealth.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Are you sure that’s …
Are you sure that’s why we got off the barter system? An apple is an apple everywhere, and so is an orange. It seems to me that all currency does is give control of wealth to those who create and control it. “Render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s.”
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Yes, but we got …
Yes, but we got away from the barter system thousands of years ago for the sole reason that the exchange rate for something such as paintings to apples vs paintings to oranges vs oranges to apples can be difficult to determine. With a universal currency a value is understood wherever you are using it. One dollar is one dollar whether you are in California or Alabama.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Money is not the …
Money is not the only thing that conceivably could be exchanged. There are other goods and services. But I can’t make a painting and then go trade it to McDonalds for a burger. All they take is money. But I have paintings. I’m not poor. It’s just that nobody can accept them as currency.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
@PluralOfEverything …
@PluralOfEverything but you do understand the lack of money is what makes it so valuable, if everyone had a million dollars who would go to work?
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Dude… it’s …
Dude… it’s Chretien.
He was PM for a little over 10 years.
I really disliked “Jean the Great”, but he won his majorities thru a mixture of bare-knucle politics, and a laughably divided right-wing
( I wasn’t laughing at the time thou)
Even thou I didn’t like him much, I don’t appreciate him being used in a rubbutal in a conversation about the president of Syria.
I have too much respect for Canadian democracy, and the office of PM, for that.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Only small problem …
Only small problem there, length of a leaders stay doesn’t nescarily mean lack of democracy, Canada had Creitchen in some form of goverment of somesort for over 30 years…not sure how long he was prime minster though.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
It’s ridiculous to …
It’s ridiculous to say that the United States is a free society. Goods and services can only be paid for with money, and money is controlled by big business and the federal reserve. We are all slaves.
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
the toga and wreath …
the toga and wreath was Roman, not Greek… points against
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
religion needs to …
religion needs to be eliminated before society can prosper… its the religious way of rationalizing war that prohibits humanity to truly prosper… not to mention the backwards way of thinking that is bread from such a doctrine
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
Re ancient greek …
Re ancient greek democracy, it was more like a lottery: the more votes you had, the better your chance, but it was still down to chance (or the gods, as they saw it).
March 10th, 2010 at 9:24 pm
the more you listen …
the more you listen to islamic reasoning and christian reasoning the harder it is to tell them apart.